<div dir="ltr">That is something that surprised me when the answer was "yes, bring it on" when I inquired about an amateur payload. This was for the complete custom board, not this question of "what sensor". <br><br>As all of you know, I prefer ground to space, but I know my way around the issues, and a quick "yes" was, well, eyebrow raising to say the least. <br><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">-Michelle W5NYV<br><br><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:02 AM Thomas Parry via Ground-Station <ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Hey, </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">There are a lot of interesting things that could be done with a simple PLL. You could use it to form a regenerative FMCW ranging radar. This could be used to accurately determine the location and speed of the satellite from ground. The space segment is as simple as they come, a PLL. This is something I would be really interested in implementing if the opportunity exists to launch it. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">However, I don't think any RF payload would be accepted. The satellite frequency filing will be for the specific LoRa frequency, bandwidth and modulation. Any added emitters would mean altering the filing and reapplying.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheers, </div><div dir="auto">Thomas</div><div dir="auto"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 27 Sep 2019, 13:39 , <ground-station-request@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Ground-Station mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Please vote - Ambasat sensor (Michelle Thompson)<br>
2. Re: Please vote - Ambasat sensor (John Ackermann. N8UR)<br>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 22:30:39 -0700<br>
From: Michelle Thompson <<a href="mailto:mountain.michelle@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mountain.michelle@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Douglas Quagliana <<a href="mailto:dquagliana@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dquagliana@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: KC9SGV <<a href="mailto:kc9sgv@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">kc9sgv@gmail.com</a>>, Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station<br>
<ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute><br>
Subject: Re: [Ground-station] Please vote - Ambasat sensor<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CACvjz2WooHZiJLOT=VuqjmRwN=<a href="mailto:YZJ5UTu35-NOms7NyecSYeGg@mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">YZJ5UTu35-NOms7NyecSYeGg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
We can design our own sensor. There's a blurb about it on the site and<br>
specs for the footprint and interface.<br>
<br>
If someone commits to build and test, I can work with Ambasat to see if we<br>
can get it on there.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 22:27 Douglas Quagliana <<a href="mailto:dquagliana@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dquagliana@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Rather than a sensor, could we get an ulta stable oscillator (USO) for<br>
> some frequency in an amateur satellite band? We would just need the USO, a<br>
> small amplifier and an antenna. Even an inefficient antenna. Even if we?re<br>
> only radiating a few milliwatts. There?s still a lot of good science we can<br>
> do from an unmodulated carrier with Doppler.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Douglas<br>
><br>
> On Sep 26, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station <<br>
> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:<br>
><br>
> There are solar panels.<br>
><br>
> From <a href="https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/ambasat-1/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/ambasat-1/</a><br>
><br>
> "AmbaSats are just a little bigger than the size of a couple of postage<br>
> stamps but have solar cells, a LoRaWAN radio transceiver..."<br>
><br>
> For the dashboard, there's a big hint here:<br>
> "Your AmbaSat-1 is fully TTN compliant so as well as viewing data in your<br>
> Dashboard, you can sign-up for a TTN account and access your satellite?s<br>
> sensor data directly using a range of different TTN extensions."<br>
><br>
> I think the dashboard is essentially The Things Network. I'll see what I<br>
> can find out about the dashboard availability.<br>
><br>
> Interesting question about HABs! I think several people on this list are<br>
> much more active than I am in designing and building payloads, and might be<br>
> able to give an evaluation based on what's on the <a href="http://ambasat.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ambasat.com</a> website.<br>
><br>
> -Michelle W5NYV<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 11:56 AM KC9SGV <<a href="mailto:kc9sgv@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">kc9sgv@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> The "three months in space" bit, makes me wonder.<br>
>> Maybe out of power by then ?<br>
>> (Don't see any solar panels on the board.)<br>
>> What would the possibility be to use the board as payload on a HAB (high<br>
>> altitude balloon).<br>
>> Maybe a Mylar balloon cluster achieving float, like the current Miami<br>
>> effort ?<br>
>> Then the environmental modules would make sense.<br>
>> Could you get the dashboard and web based tracking without buying the<br>
>> launch ?<br>
>><br>
>> Bernard,<br>
>> KC9SGV<br>
>> Sent from my iPad<br>
>><br>
>> On Sep 26, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Howie DeFelice via Ground-Station <<br>
>> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> It has a LoRA radio on board which is really cool. I always thought that<br>
>> LoRA on a LEO would make a great Store and Forward messaging sat. The<br>
>> chirp spread spectrum modulation handles doppler quite well and LoRA chips<br>
>> on carrier boards are easy to find to make ground stations. Unfortunately<br>
>> there is little chance we could license it since the FCC decided that<br>
>> anything smaller than a 1U cubesat is too small to track.<br>
>><br>
>> Howie<br>
>> AB2S<br>
>> ------------------------------<br>
>> *From:* Ground-Station <<br>
>> ground-station-bounces@lists.openresearch.institute> on behalf of<br>
>> Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station <<br>
>> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute><br>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 26, 2019 11:26 AM<br>
>> *To:* Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station <<br>
>> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute><br>
>> *Subject:* [Ground-station] Please vote - Ambasat sensor<br>
>><br>
>> I bought into the Kickstarter for Ambasat.<br>
>> <a href="https://ambasat.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ambasat.com/</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889564741&sdata=HQ1maV9Z5PGG%2BUZf%2FqV5zFpH8qsFQ0WDvC4BHQkJ5rE%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889564741&sdata=HQ1maV9Z5PGG%2BUZf%2FqV5zFpH8qsFQ0WDvC4BHQkJ5rE%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
>><br>
>> I?d like you all to help choose the sensor!<br>
>><br>
>> Choices here:<br>
>> <a href="https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/sensor-options/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/sensor-options/</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2Fambasat-2%2Fsensor-options%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889574740&sdata=0gUbpgbQldmIxAydIuXk6fdBWaQQmBuY8yEH48Rpe64%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2Fambasat-2%2Fsensor-options%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889574740&sdata=0gUbpgbQldmIxAydIuXk6fdBWaQQmBuY8yEH48Rpe64%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
>><br>
>> Disclaimer:<br>
>> This has nothing to do with our project. I acknowledge that Ambasat is<br>
>> controversial. No project funds are involved.<br>
>><br>
>> Why post this here?<br>
>><br>
>> Details:<br>
>> I asked Ambasat about a custom amateur radio payload, so we could test<br>
>> something for us. The kickstarter had that option. The lead of Ambasat said<br>
>> yes, amateur payload ok, several people I asked at Virginia Tech said go<br>
>> for it, and a small group looked at the specs and tried to design something<br>
>> useful for us. But, the very compact size and power budget was quite<br>
>> daunting. And the time frame was very short. We don?t have enough<br>
>> miniaturization or time. Instead of a custom board, we have a standard<br>
>> flight and a ground version.<br>
>><br>
>> Instead of quietly sending this up, I wanted to share it with the team as<br>
>> something fun. I just received the survey for the sensors, so we easily<br>
>> have a week at least to vote. It includes some sensors already. The free<br>
>> choice is an additional sensor slot.<br>
>><br>
>> -Michelle W5NYV<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> -Michelle W5NYV<br>
>><br>
>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."<br>
>><br>
>><br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 08:37:23 -0400<br>
From: "John Ackermann. N8UR" <<a href="mailto:jra@febo.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">jra@febo.com</a>><br>
To: Michelle Thompson <<a href="mailto:mountain.michelle@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">mountain.michelle@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: Douglas Quagliana <<a href="mailto:dquagliana@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dquagliana@gmail.com</a>>, Michelle Thompson via<br>
Ground-Station <ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute><br>
Subject: Re: [Ground-station] Please vote - Ambasat sensor<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:7ee372f0-165d-4de5-b586-2c568abbe8dd@febo.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">7ee372f0-165d-4de5-b586-2c568abbe8dd@febo.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
In this context, what does "Ultra Stable" mean?? There are a bunch of interesting challenges with crystals in space because of the launch shock, the huge temperature swings, and the thermal insulating properties of vacuum.<br>
<br>
I know people who know about these things and would be glad to help if we wanted to do this, but a spec is the first requirement.? It would need to include (at a minimum) nominal frequency,? short-term stability, phase noise, drift/aging, temperature response, and absolute frequency accuracy, along with mechanical things like shock rating, physical dimensions, and power budget.? There would have to be consideration of thermal management as well, given the likely need for an oven.<br>
<br>
(Note: I've never done spacecraft design, but I've picked up on these issues from conversations with those who have worked on space-borne USOs.)<br>
<br>
73,<br>
John<br>
<br>
On Sep 27, 2019, 1:32 AM, at 1:32 AM, Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station <ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:<br>
>We can design our own sensor. There's a blurb about it on the site and<br>
>specs for the footprint and interface.<br>
><br>
>If someone commits to build and test, I can work with Ambasat to see if<br>
>we<br>
>can get it on there.<br>
><br>
>On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 22:27 Douglas Quagliana <<a href="mailto:dquagliana@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">dquagliana@gmail.com</a>><br>
>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Rather than a sensor, could we get an ulta stable oscillator (USO)<br>
>for<br>
>> some frequency in an amateur satellite band? We would just need the<br>
>USO, a<br>
>> small amplifier and an antenna. Even an inefficient antenna. Even if<br>
>we?re<br>
>> only radiating a few milliwatts. There?s still a lot of good science<br>
>we can<br>
>> do from an unmodulated carrier with Doppler.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>> Douglas<br>
>><br>
>> On Sep 26, 2019, at 6:24 PM, Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station <<br>
>> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> There are solar panels.<br>
>><br>
>> From <a href="https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/ambasat-1/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/ambasat-1/</a><br>
>><br>
>> "AmbaSats are just a little bigger than the size of a couple of<br>
>postage<br>
>> stamps but have solar cells, a LoRaWAN radio transceiver..."<br>
>><br>
>> For the dashboard, there's a big hint here:<br>
>> "Your AmbaSat-1 is fully TTN compliant so as well as viewing data in<br>
>your<br>
>> Dashboard, you can sign-up for a TTN account and access your<br>
>satellite?s<br>
>> sensor data directly using a range of different TTN extensions."<br>
>><br>
>> I think the dashboard is essentially The Things Network. I'll see<br>
>what I<br>
>> can find out about the dashboard availability.<br>
>><br>
>> Interesting question about HABs! I think several people on this list<br>
>are<br>
>> much more active than I am in designing and building payloads, and<br>
>might be<br>
>> able to give an evaluation based on what's on the <a href="http://ambasat.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">ambasat.com</a><br>
>website.<br>
>><br>
>> -Michelle W5NYV<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 11:56 AM KC9SGV <<a href="mailto:kc9sgv@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">kc9sgv@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> The "three months in space" bit, makes me wonder.<br>
>>> Maybe out of power by then ?<br>
>>> (Don't see any solar panels on the board.)<br>
>>> What would the possibility be to use the board as payload on a HAB<br>
>(high<br>
>>> altitude balloon).<br>
>>> Maybe a Mylar balloon cluster achieving float, like the current<br>
>Miami<br>
>>> effort ?<br>
>>> Then the environmental modules would make sense.<br>
>>> Could you get the dashboard and web based tracking without buying<br>
>the<br>
>>> launch ?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Bernard,<br>
>>> KC9SGV<br>
>>> Sent from my iPad<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Sep 26, 2019, at 1:11 PM, Howie DeFelice via Ground-Station <<br>
>>> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> It has a LoRA radio on board which is really cool. I always thought<br>
>that<br>
>>> LoRA on a LEO would make a great Store and Forward messaging sat.<br>
>The<br>
>>> chirp spread spectrum modulation handles doppler quite well and LoRA<br>
>chips<br>
>>> on carrier boards are easy to find to make ground stations. <br>
>Unfortunately<br>
>>> there is little chance we could license it since the FCC decided<br>
>that<br>
>>> anything smaller than a 1U cubesat is too small to track.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Howie<br>
>>> AB2S<br>
>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>> *From:* Ground-Station <<br>
>>> ground-station-bounces@lists.openresearch.institute> on behalf of<br>
>>> Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station <<br>
>>> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute><br>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 26, 2019 11:26 AM<br>
>>> *To:* Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station <<br>
>>> ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute><br>
>>> *Subject:* [Ground-station] Please vote - Ambasat sensor<br>
>>><br>
>>> I bought into the Kickstarter for Ambasat.<br>
>>> <a href="https://ambasat.com/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ambasat.com/</a><br>
>>><br>
><<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889564741&sdata=HQ1maV9Z5PGG%2BUZf%2FqV5zFpH8qsFQ0WDvC4BHQkJ5rE%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889564741&sdata=HQ1maV9Z5PGG%2BUZf%2FqV5zFpH8qsFQ0WDvC4BHQkJ5rE%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I?d like you all to help choose the sensor!<br>
>>><br>
>>> Choices here:<br>
>>> <a href="https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/sensor-options/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://ambasat.com/ambasat-2/sensor-options/</a><br>
>>><br>
><<a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2Fambasat-2%2Fsensor-options%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889574740&sdata=0gUbpgbQldmIxAydIuXk6fdBWaQQmBuY8yEH48Rpe64%3D&reserved=0" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fambasat.com%2Fambasat-2%2Fsensor-options%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2c3f3cef695d4bdb07b208d7429697ee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637051086889574740&sdata=0gUbpgbQldmIxAydIuXk6fdBWaQQmBuY8yEH48Rpe64%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Disclaimer:<br>
>>> This has nothing to do with our project. I acknowledge that Ambasat<br>
>is<br>
>>> controversial. No project funds are involved.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Why post this here?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Details:<br>
>>> I asked Ambasat about a custom amateur radio payload, so we could<br>
>test<br>
>>> something for us. The kickstarter had that option. The lead of<br>
>Ambasat said<br>
>>> yes, amateur payload ok, several people I asked at Virginia Tech<br>
>said go<br>
>>> for it, and a small group looked at the specs and tried to design<br>
>something<br>
>>> useful for us. But, the very compact size and power budget was quite<br>
>>> daunting. And the time frame was very short. We don?t have enough<br>
>>> miniaturization or time. Instead of a custom board, we have a<br>
>standard<br>
>>> flight and a ground version.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Instead of quietly sending this up, I wanted to share it with the<br>
>team as<br>
>>> something fun. I just received the survey for the sensors, so we<br>
>easily<br>
>>> have a week at least to vote. It includes some sensors already. The<br>
>free<br>
>>> choice is an additional sensor slot.<br>
>>><br>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> -Michelle W5NYV<br>
>>><br>
>>> "Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
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</blockquote></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>