<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp5d6e2d93yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Bernard</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I have made a QSO though Oscar 100.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">How would you have a PL tone on a CW or SSB signal in a transponder bandwidth?</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Not to mention the fun of detecting it in a multi signal bandwidth.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Kent WA5VJB/G8EMY<br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="ydpa00763eyahoo_quoted_6925287704" class="ydpa00763eyahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Monday, August 19, 2019, 11:36:08 AM CDT, KC9SGV via Ground-Station <ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471"><div><div>Agreed.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471AppleMailSignature">QO-100 runs without a required sub audible PL tone.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471AppleMailSignature">Maybe a random, alternating PL tone is all we need.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471AppleMailSignature">Change it every month or so.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471AppleMailSignature">Advise the users via a mail list like this.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471AppleMailSignature">KC9SGV</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471yqt0798968602" id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471yqt85902"><div><br clear="none">On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:29 AM, Michelle Thompson <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:mountain.michelle@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mountain.michelle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>Authentication is part of the air interface, and not just in the hardware, so any home brew would have to comply. Otherwise, you just don’t get through. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We assume auth/auth management is part of operations and is the operator’s responsibility. It’s up to the operator to decide to use all the functions. They’d have to make sure they had enough people on the job to not slow down new users. You addressed exactly this potential bottleneck. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>It can be run wide open, with no checks, and then be changed depending on status (e.g. emergency traffic only may mean only credentialed people can use it).</div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Spoofing is hard. It is not impossible, but in general, for security to work, you just have to make it hard enough for attempts to drop to zero. It doesn’t have to be mathematically perfect, or eliminate every way to break in. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>If all any malcontent can do is raise the noise floor, then we have been extremely successful. That seems achievable with what we’ve assumed as the baseline security design. Needs testing! </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-mdt</div><div><br clear="none"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_quote"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 08:15 KC9SGV <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kc9sgv@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kc9sgv@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div>Hi,</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">Well trod ground, certainly.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">Recent ham radio systems like Echolink, Winlink, IRLP, etc. come to mind.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">To access these systems, the individual ham is authenticated and authorized.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">If this is done by hand, individually....good luck with that.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">A full time job for somebody with the resultant delays in authorization.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">Authentication is not to stop the enterprising, criminal element to usurp an old "CW only" operator's call sign and operate digitally through the satellite, even with an on-board data base.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">Such old "CW only" operator will never have the reason to suspect his callsign is being used nefariously....</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">Most of the client ground station hardware will be home brewed anyway, with no authentication chips in place.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">Maybe, authentication via cell phone before each QSO, is what is needed.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">The way on-line banks now authenticate customers for on-line banking transactions.</div></div><div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">Bernard,</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603AppleMailSignature">KC9SGV<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div><br clear="none">On Aug 19, 2019, at 9:36 AM, Michelle Thompson <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:mountain.michelle@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mountain.michelle@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>This is one of the biggest reasons our designs are regenerative repeaters with authentication and (optional) authorization. </div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Background info is in the repo, but the essential mechanism is what LotW uses combined with white and black lists. Requires a database in the payload and enough horsepower to afford the overhead.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Fortunately, it’s well trod ground. It would be even better with a working authentication/authorization demo, but we just got a good channelizer working. We are much closer to a working end to end demo than we were just a few weeks ago. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>*Enabling legacy traffic through the aggregator is a special case. The aggregated traffic is tagged, but the individual traffic channels (FM hts, p25, d-star) would not necessarily be individually authenticated. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>-mdt</div><div><br clear="none"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_quote"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 07:02 John Klingelhoeffer via Ground-Station <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms, sans-serif;font-size:large;">Unless we configure an appropriate authentication system, I am afraid we will suffer a similar fate. So much for open transponders. </div></div><br clear="none"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_quote"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 18, 2019 at 1:07 PM KC9SGV via Ground-Station <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div><div>I agree and understand that.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature">So let us concentrate on getting our very own, very legal ham GEO sat up for Region 2 ASAP.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature">Hopefully these old 1970's technology military comms sats are not completely abandoned by the various Western militaries.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature">For fun, revisit the movie "Space Cowboys" with Clint Eastwood now on Netflix.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature">Somewhat related.</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature">Bernard,</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature">KC9SGV</div><div id="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603m_5062954074284006050gmail-m_5505849600401305828AppleMailSignature"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sent from my iPad</div><div><br clear="none">On Aug 18, 2019, at 12:16 PM, Timestep <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:help@time-step.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">help@time-step.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">It's easy world wide communication. However
the USA Government will track you down...........</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Regards</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Dave G 4IUG</font></div>
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471m_-3490166140789088603gmail_signature" dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">-Michelle W5NYV<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="ydpa00763eyiv1525011471gmail_signature" dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">-Michelle W5NYV<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr">"Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis."<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>