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    <pre style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">SPACEBEE-1              
1 43142U 18004AH  18166.15327463  .00002710  00000-0  11662-3 0  9999
2 43142  97.5349 228.9583 0011111 108.5240 251.7204 15.23458854 23400
SPACEBEE-2              
1 43141U 18004AG  18165.89385312  .00002518  00000-0  10875-3 0  9996
2 43141  97.5348 228.6883 0011116 109.0700 251.1741 15.23396885 23371
SPACEBEE-3              
1 43140U 18004AF  18165.89660685  .00002409  00000-0  10436-3 0  9996
2 43140  97.5347 228.6832 0011129 108.9142 251.3301 15.23343657 23378
SPACEBEE-4              
1 43139U 18004AE  18166.16700625  .00001921  00000-0  84210-4 0  9994
2 43139  97.5347 228.9332 0011117 107.4719 252.7733 15.23190279 23403</pre>
    <p>TLE source:  Celestrak.com, also on N2YO's webpage.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Not trying to be argumentative here, truly am confused about
      whats going on.....hoping someone in the know can school me.<br>
    </p>
    <p>To me it appears they are reliably tracking all four
      individually.  Epochs updated yesterday/today (if I did the Julian
      conversion right), and I've been loosely following this and have
      never seen 'stale' updates.  These TLEs (NORAD IDs) were in the
      catalog very early in the post launch deployment (within first two
      weeks for sure, I have a TLE matching project based off Doppler
      curves, done for Fox-1D that was on the same vehicle, and have the
      early TLEs saved off on github and the individual spacebees are in
      there!).   This implies that they were quickly resolved in the sea
      of 30+ satellites deployed in 300 seconds (or there about). <br>
    </p>
    <p>Not saying they should have been launched without their licensing
      in place, but clearly (to me, could be wrong here) the original
      grounds for the FCC denial was flat out wrong, like Howie said.<br>
    </p>
    <p>So maybe their response would be "sure, we can track <i>four</i>....". 
      OK, well......what's your upper limit?  A denial of 'sorry we can
      only routinely track 20, and there are currently 20 up there, so
      you have to wait for the technology to improve or something to
      decay' would really suck, but at least it would be clear.........<br>
    </p>
    <p>My take on this issue is that if there is a minimum size
      requirement (maybe orbital altitude is a factor as well here, so
      maybe 'desired altitude + size requirement') from
      FCC/JSpOC/NASA/Whoever, that is not clearly stated in any
      application requirements, so how were they (or anyone else for
      that matter) to know that would be an issue in the first place. 
      We have an interest in the ThinSat design at VT.  We are launching
      ThinSat derived designs on a suborbital sounding rocket very soon
      (not an issue for orbit tracking, but that program is supposed to
      be traceable to orbital spaceflight), I know that a High School in
      Southwest VA is launching some very soon (they got approval),
      though they will be VERY low altitude (one - two week lifetime)
      and we have recently started a possible collaboration with VMI who
      is intending to launch some in the next year or so (haven't begun
      filing process).........so what is the requirement?<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>So what is the technical challenge here?  I understand that
      higher frequency radars (Ka band I think?) are needed to track
      these smaller objects, and that there are fewer of those.  But the
      TLEs keep getting updated......so is this a question of scheduling
      and because this is a hot topic they have bumped them up in the
      priority queue?  Is some piece of Iridium 33 / COSMOS 2251 not
      being tracked to make room for these guys and they are worried
      about over burdening the radars?  Again, understandable.......but
      they are not being clear and consistent in the requirement, which
      just causes more confusion......</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Again, not trying to defend the company who went against FCC
      decisions, but the fundamental grounds for the denial is at best
      incomplete, at worst, just straight up wrong......<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>-Zach, KJ4QLP<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Research Associate
Aerospace Systems Lab
Ted & Karyn Hume Center for National Security & Technology
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University
Work Phone: 540-231-4174
Cell Phone: 540-808-6305</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/15/2018 6:21 PM, Bruce Perens via
      Ground-Station wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK2MWOtxtHB6Gz4PF1zHF1UaOGh=vHHrH_kxrr+kKSUQXEqgUQ@mail.gmail.com">
      <div dir="ltr">I will note that, but I suspect their answer is
        going to be "sure, we can track <i>one".</i>
        <div><i><br>
          </i></div>
        <div><i>    </i>Thanks</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>    Bruce</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Howie
          DeFelice <span dir="ltr"><<a
              href="mailto:howied231@hotmail.com" target="_blank"
              moz-do-not-send="true">howied231@hotmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div style="font-family:"Franklin Gothic
                Demi","Avenir Next Condensed Demi
                Bold",sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
                The FCC statement about "Trackability" and that Jspoc
                cannot routinely track objects smaller than 10cm is just
                not true. $50sat (aka Eagle2) was launched in 2013 into
                a 700 km sun synchronous orbit. The dimensions of that
                satellite were 5cm x 5cm x 7.5 cm and updates from Jspoc
                were routinely published until the satellite re-entered
                a few weeks ago. This is the satellite referred to in
                note 25 of the NPRM, comment by Alba Orbital.</div>
              <div style="font-family:"Franklin Gothic
                Demi","Avenir Next Condensed Demi
                Bold",sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
                <br>
              </div>
              <div>
                <ul>
                  <li style="font-family:"franklin gothic
                    demi","avenir next condensed demi
                    bold",sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
                    <font face="Franklin Gothic Demi, Avenir Next
                      Condensed Demi Bold, sans-serif" color="#000000">Howie
                      AB2s</font></li>
                </ul>
              </div>
              <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
              <div id="m_141792140554409769divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
                  style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
                  color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Ground-Station
                  <ground-station-bounces@lists.<wbr>openresearch.institute>
                  on behalf of Bruce Perens via Ground-Station
                  <ground-station@lists.<wbr>openresearch.institute><br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 15, 2018 1:20 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> Michelle Thompson via Ground-Station<br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ground-station] FCC
                  Small-Satellite NPRM</font>
                <div> </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div class="h5">
                  <div>
                    <div dir="ltr">The Federal Register Information: <a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.federalregister.gov%2Fdocuments%2F2018%2F05%2F24%2F2018-10943%2Fstreamlining-licensing-procedures-for-small-satellites&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf058b587db7d41bcfbe008d5d2e48724%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636646801311962375&sdata=7DZGLdDMhmsYMCnA5jCAh%2FH8DWnQM6STgH4F5EUJ3YA%3D&reserved=0"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.<wbr>federalregister.gov/documents/<wbr>2018/05/24/2018-10943/<wbr>streamlining-licensing-<wbr>procedures-for-small-<wbr>satellites</a>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>The FCC's document: <a
href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftransition.fcc.gov%2FDaily_Releases%2FDaily_Business%2F2018%2Fdb0417%2FFCC-18-44A1.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf058b587db7d41bcfbe008d5d2e48724%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636646801311962375&sdata=540n1u7OPvsoGb%2FciS7kQgo%2BnTG2SU2hgyVRAbSqLx4%3D&reserved=0"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://transition.<wbr>fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_<wbr>Business/2018/db0417/FCC-18-<wbr>44A1.pdf</a></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="m_141792140554409769x_gmail_extra"><br>
                      <div class="m_141792140554409769x_gmail_quote">On
                        Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 10:11 AM, Bruce Perens <span
                          dir="ltr">
                          <<a href="mailto:bruce@perens.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bruce@perens.com</a>></span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote
                          class="m_141792140554409769x_gmail_quote"
                          style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="ltr">It says in the Federal Register
                            that we have until July 9 to submit our
                            comment in the small-satellite NPRM. I'm
                            starting to write now. Please send your
                            ideas my way.
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>    Thanks</div>
                            <span class="m_141792140554409769x_HOEnZb"><font
                                color="#888888">
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>    Bruce<br clear="all">
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  -- <br>
                                  <div
                                    class="m_141792140554409769x_m_-3712711220103448352gmail_signature">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div>
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div>
                                            <div dir="ltr">Bruce Perens
                                              K6BP - CEO, Legal
                                              Engineering<br>
                                              Standards committee chair,
                                              license review committee
                                              member, co-founder, Open
                                              Source Initiative
                                              <div>President, Open
                                                Research Institute;
                                                Board Member, Fashion
                                                Freedom Initiative.<br>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </font></span></div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br>
                      <br clear="all">
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      -- <br>
                      <div class="m_141792140554409769x_gmail_signature">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div>
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div>
                                <div dir="ltr">Bruce Perens K6BP - CEO,
                                  Legal Engineering<br>
                                  Standards committee chair, license
                                  review committee member, co-founder,
                                  Open Source Initiative
                                  <div>President, Open Research
                                    Institute; Board Member, Fashion
                                    Freedom Initiative.<br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        -- <br>
        <div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>
                  <div dir="ltr">Bruce Perens K6BP - CEO, Legal
                    Engineering<br>
                    Standards committee chair, license review committee
                    member, co-founder, Open Source Initiative
                    <div>President, Open Research Institute; Board
                      Member, Fashion Freedom Initiative.<br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <!--'"--><br>
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      <br>
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</pre>
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