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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">IPS on a soft RISC-V processor running
on a SmartFusion2 FPGA, maybe? Count me in, I've always had a soft
spot for Forth.<br>
<br>
: DEUTSCH PROBLEM KEIN;<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jan, ac7td, dl5ue<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/17/2018 12:02 AM, Douglas Quagliana via Ground-Station
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALaYSm=f1s2sKL8kMp=tp4vRJxm4nriPvcCDHWM59D73NeS_XQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">All,<br>
<br>
Here's more way more information than you wanted to know on a
couple of the points that Bruce mentioned.<br>
<br>
Bruce writes:<br>
>They didn't always use rad-hard memory, just because they
could not afford it, <br>
>but used error-correcting memory architectures and scrubbed
the memory constantly <br>
>so that single-bit errors were corrected before they became
large enough to be <br>
>uncorrectible. <br>
<br>
If I recall correctly, the memory scrubbing technique was used
on the LEO Microsats and a three bank memory voting scheme was
used on the IHU-2 on AO-40. See<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/124.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.amsat.org/amsat/articles/g3ruh/124.html</a><br>
<br>
<i>>EDAC memory:</i> 20 percent. The EDAC (Error Detecting
And Correcting) memory scheme used requires the actual memory to
be three times as large as the processor sees. This is necessary
to allow a two-of-three vote for each bit. <br>
>This scheme results in a much faster memory system than the
Hamming 12 to 8 EDAC system used on previous designs, in order
to support the much faster processor.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Bruce writes:<br>
>They have their own FORTH-like language, first written in
the '70's, which <br>
>does concurrent but not parallel threads. Most housekeeping
is written <br>
>in this language.<br>
<br>
The language is IPS. First described in 1979! The original
reference is<br>
<br>
Meinzer K.; IPS, An Unorthodox High Level Language, BYTE,
January 1979, pps 146-159.<br>
<br>
which, before you groan about ancient references to out-of-print
paper magazines, is actually available online at<br>
<br>
<a
href="https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1979-01/1979_01_BYTE_04-01_Life_Algorithms#page/n147/mode/2up"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://archive.org/stream/byte-magazine-1979-01/1979_01_BYTE_04-01_Life_Algorithms#page/n147/mode/2up</a><br>
<br>
But...if you want to learn IPS then you probably want the IPS
book that James Miller, G3RUH, first published in 1997. Before
you groan, again, about ancient references to out-of-print paper
books, that book (actually the third edition of that book from
2016) is available online at <br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.jrmiller.demon.co.uk/IPS/IPS.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.jrmiller.demon.co.uk/IPS/IPS.pdf</a><br>
<br>
However, as you will quickly find out reading Miller's IPS book,
the AO-13 IPS flight code is written in a German variant of IPS,
so a lot of that IPS code looks like this:<br>
<br>
: TRQ-ST Z-MARKE @<br>
JA? E-FLAGS @ #14 UND >0 Z @<br>
MZEITGRENZE @ = ODER<br>
JA? 0 M-EIN !<br>
DANN Z @B 32 + #FF UND 64 < M-EIN @<br>
UND 1 UND MAGNET !B<br>
DANN ;<br>
<br>
which to some people looks a lot like line noise but here "JA"
is "YES" and "DANN" is "THEN" and so on in German (hint: There
is an "English/German cheat sheet" in the IPS book on page 82).
If you wrote your own IPS code today you could use the English
ones, but to read the old housekeeping code you need to be able
to look up the equivalents in English AND understand the low
level machine operations (such as byte addressing, a stack,
bitwise operations... remember this language was designed and
meant to be run (originally) on an 1802 or an 8080 or a 6502
with maybe thirty-two KILObytes of memory. Yes, KILO-bytes of
memory. Really. I'm not making this up. Go read the IPS book.)<br>
<br>
Emulators/simulators for running IPS code (German and English)
are on the AMSAT website if you want to start coding. See<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/tools/softwareArchive.php#pc-ips"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/tools/softwareArchive.php#pc-ips</a><br>
<br>
Lastly, if you feel you must have a real 1802 CPU, well, there
actually are 1802 CPU chips still around (well, regular ones not
the SoS rad-hard ones), and there is even an entire 1802
computer that you can buy as a kit complete with toggle
switches, LEDs, and up to 64K of RAM. And it fits inside an
Altoids tin! No, I'm not making this up either. See<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.sunrise-ev.com/membershipcard.htm"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.sunrise-ev.com/membershipcard.htm</a><br>
<br>
Note that the membership card 1802 CPUs are not rad-hard and
they can run TinyBasic not IPS. But, I'm sure AMSAT still has at
least one rad-hard 1802 CPU... somewhere. And, getting IPS to
run on the 1802 membership card is left as an exercise to the
reader. If you're successful, I'd love to hear about it. <br>
<br>
73,<br>
Douglas KA2UPW/5<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Bruce
Perens via Ground-Station <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">OK, I'm <i>sure </i>I'm going to get
something wrong, so please, list folks, feel free to jump
in and correct me when I do. I still don't know much about
satellites.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Keith,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>While silicon-on-insulator parts are a great way to
go, there is at least a $1000 cost differential for CPUs
and then you get to memory... So, cubesat folks have
been creative in finding radiation-tolerant parts in
consumer or industrial grades. The main problem we're
trying to avoid is latch-up that actually damages the
part. The second problem is bit errors. I have heard
that some FLASH gate-array-based CPUs do not suffer <i>damage
</i>from radiation induced latch-up and there are viable
recovery mechanisms, and their FLASH-based gate-array
does not require configuration memory and is resistant
to single-element errors. I googled this: <a
href="https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3399&context=smallsat"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://digitalcommons.<wbr>usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?<wbr>article=3399&context=smallsat</a>
which discusses the Microsemi SmartFusion2 (which we
used for our abortive Whitebox SDR, so Chris Testa knows
it well). No doubt you can find more.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Others in the group have experience with other
radiation-tolerant consumer or industrial grade parts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Cortex M0 is more than enough for housekeeping
and might be enough for some signal and image processing
tasks. But the housekeeping CPU need not be the
signal-processing CPU as well.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AMSAT has had some interesting strategies. First,
they had a cache of SoS 1802s which they used for 30
years or so. They used a lot of components that were
given to them from cancelled space projects. They didn't
always use rad-hard memory, just because they could not
afford it, but used error-correcting memory
architectures and scrubbed the memory constantly so that
single-bit errors were corrected before they became
large enough to be uncorrectible. There was <i>no</i>
ROM onboard, a hardware modem loaded memory from the
radio and then reset the CPU and set it running.
Nobody's told me, but if there was any cryptography on
that it wasn't much more than exclusive-OR of a secret
word. They have their own FORTH-like language, first
written in the '70's, which does concurrent but not
parallel threads. Most housekeeping is written in this
language.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, you can expect that some of an IHU project might
be prospecting for radiation-tolerant parts that don't
cost so much. Others have left breadcrumbs to follow.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Even when you do have rad-hard parts, generally they
have a consumer or industrial grade pin-equivalent so
that non-flight and LEO units don't have to be made with
the most expensive parts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Bruce</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 1:37
PM, Keith Wheeler <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:keith.m.wheeler@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">keith.m.wheeler@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Bruce,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not familiar with the requirements for
an IHU, but I've done a lot of embedded
firmware/hardware design. With the desire for
DX (above LEO), I'm assuming rad-hard will be
a requirement. I was looking at a rad-hard
ARM Cortex M0. What kind of horsepower would
the IHU require?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Keith Wheeler</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="m_8407629197696089881h5">On Wed,
May 16, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Bruce Perens via
Ground-Station <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:ground-station@lists.openresearch.institute"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ground-station@lists.openrese<wbr>arch.institute</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="m_8407629197696089881h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div
class="m_8407629197696089881m_-319793442629189417m_-372821615294005746gmail_forwarded">Legal
stuff first: Image credit: XKCD
#1992: "SafetySat" at <a
href="http://xkcd.com/1992/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://xkcd.com/1992/</a>
Creative Commons Attr-NC 2.5
license.
<div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Yes, we should
have a satellite program and do
what AMSAT is not. Everyone I
have heard from so far is asking
for a "DX Satellite", "like
AO-13" and not LEO.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Mission should
include digital communications
using Michelle's design. I also
have some blue-sky ideas that we
can discuss at Hamvention, some
of them might be good grant
candidates. Think grant. Money
is out there, we will start
soliciting as soon as we have a
mission plan.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Build the
satellite (and maybe P-pods)
first, approach launch providers
with flight hardware in hand and
ready to go. Satellites are
cheap, launches are not. Be
prepared to take advantage of
opportunities on very short
schedules.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I think we should
fabricate extras of parts we
design, and sell them as TAPR
does to supplement their budget,
but right off of Amazon Prime.
Make them really easy and fast
to buy, and someone else does
the shipping. Aim at
flight-quality but mostly going
to classroom use rather than
flight, to start. Nicer for the
class than the PLA 3-D printer
stuff that is so obviously
non-flight that they are using
now.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Aim for 100% to
200% markup over cost, Amazon
gets around 18% of the order and
a warehouse fee and fulfills
from their warehouse. Most of
the commercial cubesat
companies, like Pumpkin, are
running 500% to 1000% markup in
order to amortize R&D and
operational costs and still make
a profit, but most of them have
flight heritage that we would
not start out with. We use slave
labor :-) and can mostly base
our final cost on fabrication
and sales costs.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I have been
looking at cubesat structures
(because I feel competent enough
to make one, at least with your
help) and I really like
Pumpkin's design. Almost all
laser-cut 5000-class sheet
aluminum, bent on a brake,
anodized corners on the sheet,
only the 8 corner pieces are
machined, and that only simple
shaping and drilling of bar
stock into a simple rectilinear
shape with specified-radius
corners and edges and a place to
put the springs and cutoff
switch pins. Most other
designers seemed to be more
interested in showing their
skill in CNC machining than
making a practical structure. If
you look at Pumpkin's stuff, it
is clear that they put a lot of
thought into mechanical
engineering. And they actually
engineered for cost and
mass-production, while few
others bothered. We will not
ever directly copy anything (I
am an intellectual property
specialist, and will keep us
legal), but we can and should
learn from their work.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Besides the
structure, other
non-mission-specific stuff we
should be building would include
an IHU (computer) and the other
general bus components: lithium
battery pack with heaters and
per-cell management,
magnetorquer, solar panels (what
cells, from where?), maybe some
heat distribution components
like adiabatic heat pipes?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Can we hear from
volunteers for any of this?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">LIME mini might be
a good flight candidate, besides
Ettus and Rincon. Their CEO and
Open Source guy are very
friendly and their PCB design
may already be licensed
appropriately. No idea how the
chip would take radiation.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We should look
into the Open Source finite
element analysis and CFD
programs. We should simulate as
much as possible before going to
thermal vacuum, vibration and
shock, etc. And publish all
input data so that it can be
reused along with our part
designs.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I saw a really
nice indium electronic thruster
at Cal Poly. All proprietary, of
course. Goes up with the fuel
solid, gets heated in flight. No
moving parts, works by wicking
through a sintered tip. Probably
very patented. But a source of
ideas.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> Thanks</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"> Bruce</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, May 16,
2018, 09:23 Michelle
Thompson <<a
href="mailto:mountain.michelle@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mountain.michelle@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Heh! The SDR
really ties it all
together in your sketch
there. <br>
<br>
Yes, there's interest in
building an open source
satellite. The time is
right and we have the best
chance of making it happen
that I've seen in a long
time. There's a variety of
forces at work in the
industry, in academia, and
in open source culture and
achievement that help make
a modern, innovative,
amateur, open source
payload possible. <br>
<br>
I don't know enough about
MEO but I'm game for
supporting any payload
that enables an enduring
amateur community through
reliable communications in
space. I'm very happy we
get the chance to dig into
this and I want to enable
and support it as much as
possible. <br>
<br>
The Careful COTS of an
Ettus USRP effort is one
way to get a capable SDR
for space. This is a joint
project between Phase 4
Space and GOLF to get the
E310 in play soon/now for
GOLF and the E320 later
for Phase 4 Space.
Business unit at Ettus is
reviewing it. Systems
engineering lead for GOLF
endorsed it as an open
source effort. Meeting
minutes were posted to the
list. Next steps depend on
what IP from Ettus. We'll
proceed with the E320 as
far as it takes us
regardless. I expect to
make a lot more progress
here in late summer/early
fall, especially at GNU
Radio Conference 2018.<br>
<br>
The Rincon AstroSDR is
another option, and Rincon
has reached out with
questions and
clarifications in response
to the Kittens Weekly
Report. There will be more
talks after Hamvention.
Rincon will be a
significant presence at
GNU Radio Conference
2018. <br>
<br>
Propulsion, attitude
control, solar power, and
a variety of antennas all
have open source
flight-tested options at
LEO. I don't know much
about navigation. <br>
<br>
I do know that we have a
lot of support out there
from like-minded
organizations and
projects. <br>
<br>
I do know that a payload
design is within the
capabilities of people on
this list and within our
extended
Slack/GitHub/phone/email/club/<wbr>conference
network. That does not
mean it's easy by any
stretch, and it means that
our economic development
team will be tested. I
think we are up to the
challenge.<br>
<br>
What's the first thing
that you think we need to
do? <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div
class="m_8407629197696089881m_-319793442629189417m_-372821615294005746m_3580039870414392912m_1557477715270845954gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">-Michelle
W5NYV<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded
message ----------<br>
From: Howie DeFelice
<<a
href="mailto:howied231@hotmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">howied231@hotmail.com</a>><br>
To: "<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ground-station@lists.open">ground-station@lists.open</a><wbr>research.institute"
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ground-station@lists.openrese">ground-station@lists.openrese</a><wbr>arch.institute><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Wed, 16 May
2018 04:16:15 +0000<br>
Subject: Satellite
Building<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:"Franklin
Gothic
Demi","Avenir
Next Condensed
Demi
Bold",sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Just wondering
if there is
interest in
putting together
a project to
build a
satellite. There
is no particular
launch in mind
and no
particular
mission at this
pint other than
the generic
Amateur Radio
goal of
furthering the
art of
communication. I
think most will
agree that the
LAST thing we
need another
LEO. To simply
exploit the
microwave bands
I think we want
to consider
orbits that
allow hours of
coverage at a
time. A GEO
would be great,
a HEO would be
really good. An
overlooked
orbit, at least
in ham radio, is
MEO. An orbit
between 8000 and
10,000 Km would
provide about 2
hours of
coverage and
orbit the earth
about twice a
day. The problem
is that not too
many people fly
there so we need
another
strategy. If we
aren't in a big
hurry, maybe we
can get there
from LEO. This
means we need
propulsion,
attitude
control,
navigation, lots
of solar power
and a really
cool radio. Does
this sound
reasonable? How
long would this
actually take
with a
milli-Newton
thruster ? I
have attached a
sketch of my
first ideas.</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Franklin
Gothic
Demi","Avenir
Next Condensed
Demi
Bold",sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:"Franklin
Gothic
Demi","Avenir
Next Condensed
Demi
Bold",sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
- Howie AB2S </div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded
message ----------<br>
From: ground-station-request@l<wbr>ists.openresearch.institute<br>
To: <br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Wed, 16 May
2018 00:16:18 -0400<br>
Subject: confirm
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If you reply to this
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</blockquote>
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<br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
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<br>
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<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br>
<div class="m_8407629197696089881gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Bruce Perens K6BP - CEO,
Legal Engineering<br>
Standards committee chair, license review
committee member, co-founder, Open Source
Initiative
<div>President, Open Research Institute;
Board Member, Fashion Freedom
Initiative.<br>
</div>
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